Ganymede & Titan - Mozart, Mendelssohn, or Motörhead - Comments

> Thing is though, to people

Andrew — Sun, 04 Feb 2007 13:33:26 +0000

> Thing is though, to people who aren’t familiar with Kevin Keegan, is there a difference in the joke? It makes it funnier if you know who Kevin Keegan IS, but if you don’t the joke’s the same whether it’s Kevin Keegan, Joe Klumpp or Rokk Krinn.

Hey, I wasn’t debating it’s success there - just the fairly obvious reason for making the change. Whether it was a GOOD reason or not is a judgement call…

Hey. It could be an entirely

Karl — Sun, 04 Feb 2007 10:58:10 +0000

Hey. It could be an entirely different Kevin Keegan with an entirely different curly barnet.

Andrew: Isn’t ‘It’s a

Somebody — Sun, 04 Feb 2007 02:46:52 +0000

Andrew:
Isn’t ‘It’s a dated reference that doesn’t travel outside the UK’ explanation enough?! Whather you like the change or not, the rationale was pretty clear, I would have thought.

Thing is though, to people who aren’t familiar with Kevin Keegan, is there a difference in the joke? It makes it funnier if you know who Kevin Keegan IS, but if you don’t the joke’s the same whether it’s Kevin Keegan, Joe Klumpp or Rokk Krinn.

> I’d still be interested

Andrew — Sun, 04 Feb 2007 01:54:10 +0000

> I’d still be interested in why Rob and Doug bothered changing it.

Isn’t ‘It’s a dated reference that doesn’t travel outside the UK’ explanation enough?! Whather you like the change or not, the rationale was pretty clear, I would have thought.

> Actually, is it still Kevin Keegan in new editions of IWCD?

I don’t believe so. Omnibus only.

I’m currently re-reading

Johnny Walker — Sun, 04 Feb 2007 01:23:49 +0000

I’m currently re-reading the Omnibus and the Joe Klumpp bit IS funny. The reason it’s funny is the fact that it’s a computer with an IQ of 6000 making the reference to an obvious crappy sports book. I know it’s not the same as saying “Kevin Keegan wrote a made up book and it was the worst one in the entire universe”, but really, even that’s not THAT funny. You can imagine pretty much the same thing with Joe Klumpp, and it’s funny because it’s more of a statement about Holly’s mental health, than anything else.

I think the reason it was changed is just that it’s dated; Kevin Keegan is forgotten. If you’re going to be snipey, then you may as well do it for someone who’s worth remembering. It’d make more sense with it being David Beckham, now, but even then it’s not that funny.

I was miffed when I first read the change, but, reading it again years later, it didn’t bother me a bit.

Bah. Play on words gags

Karl — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:29:17 +0000

Bah. Play on words gags never translate well in type.

> You allready are one

Austin Ross — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:51:14 +0000

> You allready are one glorious whole.

A whole, Brian, with a “W.”

The thing is, I actually I

John Hoare — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:30:52 +0000

The thing is, I actually I laugh at the Keegan reference because I love the idea that Kevin Keegan wrote the worst book in the world. Out of the *whole* of time and space… Kevin Keegan wrote the worst book in the entire universe. It’s just not as funny for me if it’s someone who never existed, even though I admit that there’s still a joke there. It’s just that it’s the Kevin Keegan stuff which elevates the joke into something *really* funny, for me.

Anyway, regardless of all this, I’d still be interested in why Rob and Doug bothered changing it. Actually, is it still Kevin Keegan in new editions of IWCD?

Very good point regarding

Karl — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:13:35 +0000

Very good point regarding Zero-G. That said you’ve had undercurrents of both in Red Dwarf. The Zero-G stuff is a development of american football, we assume. Then again comments about “playing away at Leeds”, “QPR at Home”, Peter Beardsley and Kevin Keegan are all routed in proper football. So it’s not like Keegan was a one-off out of place reference.

> Joe Klumpp sounds

Andrew — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:02:01 +0000

> Joe Klumpp sounds american. Infact I assumed he probably was an american footballer of some description.

Which, when it’s Zero-G Football, kind fits, given how that’s always been rendered more akin to American Football.

And oh, ah, John - I DO find Joe Klumpp to be deliberately dull, flat name (Joe’s generic, ‘clump’ is just bland, whacky spelling or not). Which may, along with the name/reference itself not really being the joke, explain why I’m completely indifferent to the change and find it equally funny.

Or not. Ho-hum.

>Joe Klumpp sounds american.

Leelu — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:58:06 +0000

>Joe Klumpp sounds american. Infact I assumed he probably was an american footballer of some description.

There aren’t any famous American footballers by that name. Out of curiosity, I just googled the name, and you’re right it tends to be American. Beyond the name occuring in Red Dwarf, there’s a mayor of Bedford, Indiana with that name (sounds close to Bedford Falls!) and someone who’s an officer in the U.S. Army.

> Your MOTHER’S a

Karl — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:25:44 +0000

> Your MOTHER’S a mother.

You allready are one glorious whole.

Trouble is theorising jokes,

Karl — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:23:46 +0000

Trouble is theorising jokes, tends to drain out the humour. Was it changed for any particular reason? As for the Monroe/Kendall gag what I didn’t like about that change was it felt, at the time, like it was an attempt to americanise distinctly british jokes. Same with the Kevin Keegan one to a degree. Joe Klumpp sounds american. Infact I assumed he probably was an american footballer of some description.

OK, I can see why the Joe

John Hoare — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:00:51 +0000

OK, I can see why the Joe Klumpp gag would work then - at least, theoretically. Personally, I think the name is too jarring to carry it off - it needed to either be a famous name, or a really boring one. Joe Klumpp is too distinctive - it just makes you wonder who the fuck Joe Klumpp is, rather than concentrating on the gag.

From my point of view though, *both* changes lose what I think is the flavour that makes them *really* funny. I think that’s why I’m getting slightly confused; both jokes still work *theoretically* by analysing them, but they do remove everything that *actually* makes me laugh at them.

Your MOTHER’S a mother.

Seb Patrick — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:46:07 +0000

Your MOTHER’S a mother.

Mozart, Mendelssohn, or Motörhead

John Hoare — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:52:00 +0000